Talk:Mechanics

Guard
Guard being only phyiscal protection makes no sense given that u can guard through demon chimeras spells and take significantly reduced damage in the process for example.
 * I took the information from the help site but it seems to be wrong, and the percentage of Guard seems to be 75% but I need to test it more. ---Megabos5 (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2016 (EDT)

yeah it clearly seems wrong. like when i am guarding and being hit by a spell the "guard" reminder text pops up and the unit takes significantly lower damage. couldn't figure out a rough number of how much it gets reduced tho which also might vary for the type of attack but not sure. I just randomly tested it on a weak unit and the damage went from 3 to 1. which is obv very rough given the low numbers i was working with but there is no visible buff to DEF/SPR so it seems to be a flat reduction of damage after all defenses id assume and the connection between the name "Guard" and the wording of "while guarding" in sentinel are just coincidental OR the assumption of the buff gained while "tanking" are wrong and also a similar style flat damage reduction. is there concrete proof for the +50% DEF/SPR on the tanking passives?
 * I've finished my tests and from what I've seen it increases SPR and DEF by 100% of your base SPR/DEF. --Megabos5 (talk) 06:51, 29 August 2016 (EDT)
 * I made an error not base but total SPR/DEF, tested it by hiting my own units. --Megabos5 (talk) 09:01, 29 August 2016 (EDT)

I took the level correction formula from this Reddit post and I've tested myself and it's correct. --Megabos5 (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2016 (EDT)
 * Are we sure this also works on enemy though? --Cysidus (talk) 13:23, 28 August 2016 (EDT)
 * I would say yes because the damage formula should be common for everything, the only difference this will bring is that the values of the previously calculated DEF of the monsters would be approximately 10x lower, since the damage you deal against them will still be the same. But I can see why this seems wrong since a ~266 DEF Intangir is more likely then a ~26.6 one. --Megabos5 (talk) 14:10, 28 August 2016 (EDT)

I think what Megabos5 is saying makes a lot of sense since the friendly unit test is the only case where we know ATK and DEF for sure and can extrapolate the formula correctly from the damage(range) dealt here. Also comparing the damage dealt to the damage calculated with kongbakpaos damage calculator using the formula posted on the wiki seems to be off by about exactly x10 and to be fair a level adjustment of 1.8 seems a lot more likely and reasonable than 18 given how much damage that would be more simply for being max level. this seems nonsensical since u could simply reduce everything by a tenth and end up with less clunky big numbers and the same function. -- ManuS
 * It's more than likely the damage is reduced to one tenth if you are attacking player units, otherwise you can't wake up people from confusion since you'll kill everyone, and colosseum final boss having ~32 defense is just weird. I'll see if I can dig up something. Please sign your name with 4 tildes so we know who is responding to what. --Cysidus (talk) 00:41, 29 August 2016 (EDT)
 * I forgot about confuse and sleep, you're right the current formula is correct and they changed the damage for ally units. Maybe a mention that the formula changes to  when attacking ally unit.--Megabos5 (talk) 06:51, 29 August 2016 (EDT)

Both of your remarks sound very reasonable. If the DEF of europa or whoever u mean would be only 32 that is a strong indicator that the old formula is correct and there is an adjustment for allies mostly to balance confuse which let's u wake up allies from sleep alternatively as a bonus. A good way to test level correction should be to test the damage of a unit vs the same unit at different levels to get a result independant of the exact DEf of the enemy since the only concrete DEF to know is the one of the allies which has the aforementioned problem. -- ManuS

Disease
Afaik and could find disease reduces any form of hp and mp recovery by any effect significantly for its duration. not sure if 50% or more/less. could not find anything about status reduction and even if the recovery reduction should be mentioned int he tooltip table and the ailments main page. ManuS (talk) 16:07, 6 September 2016 (EDT)
 * Disease doesn't reduce any hp/mp recovery in this game, it has been tested to only reduce stats --Cysidus (talk) 22:06, 6 September 2016 (EDT)


 * ok thanks. then the info i found was wrong. it said it was tested to reduce healing lol. but tbf there was no reviewable evidence from the quick info i found. so thanks for clarifying. ManuS (talk) 22:20, 6 September 2016 (EDT)

Elemental Damage
I think the elemental damage simply adds  to the relevant formula. Meaning the magic formula would be, the current magic formula and the hybrid one are wrong, it should be without the Elemental Resistance part. The hybrid I assume would be to simply add the magic formula with the elemental resistance part, but since I've never used hybrid skills I'm not sure. --Megabos5 (talk) 11:16, 17 September 2016 (EDT)

Steal
There appears to be defense or level roll when making a steal attempt. When I first started an had 2* monsters in the early stages of the Colosseum, the Steal rate seemed to be about 50% as listed in the skill section at the time. As I progressed further in the Colosseum and monsters got stronger, the rate seemed to drop to 20% or so. But if I go back to early Colosseum levels, the rate is basically 100%. There is probably an opposed level check for each attempt, and some skills, like Locke's Limit Burst gets a bonus to the check.

Also, successful Mug does not progress towards the Legendary Thief Trophies. --Kuvuplan (talk) 14:46, 4 October 2016 (EDT)
 * Rather than the character level could it be one of the character's base stats that boosts the steal rate? And monsters resisting with their own stat? The reason I ask is because I recall a fp unit getting better rates than Locke when stealing. Is there a way to test or rule this out? Maybe it is an unshown luck stat? --PotentPortentPorter (talk) 15:25, 4 October 2016 (EDT)

It appears that Waylay must hit the enemies while the enemies are still alive. If any enemy has 0 HP before Waylay connects, nothing would be stolen from that enemy (no notifications shown at the top in battle). --MaxStampeder (talk) 13:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Abilites That Have Critical Chance
I know it has been mentioned other places skills are slowly being tested and sorted by ones that absolutely cannot crit, and those that do have a chance to critical. I understand it's not as easy as "if it has attack animation it can critical" and "if there is no attack animation there is no chance to critical" because I know of cases on both where that doesn't hold true. If anyone has a masterlist, googleDoc, or a location for where skills are being checked off I will see about trying to help with that list. To me it seems like on the skill description it should have "Physical damage (1.6x) and poison (30%) to one enemy with no chance to critical strike" or  with normal chance to critical strike 

Level Variation
With this reddit post, assuming it is correct, it seems the enemies values are normalized to the units ones making the previously discussed variation of  correct. --Megabos5 (talk) 08:58, 19 November 2016 (EST)

Stat Pots
I am trying to make sense of some disparity between the information on the stat pot info on their individual pages and what I experience in the game. Examples:
 * The Tough Pot page states that it increases the HP by 30 points. I just used two in a single fuse on Cecil, since I calculated my remaining HP gain available to be ~78, and received a 78 HP gain.
 * The mini main-stat pot pages (e.g., Mini Power Pot) states they increase stats by 1. Each time I use them it's a toss up whether I get 1 point or two, I even received 4 points when using two Mini Soul Pots in a single fuse.


 * 1) Are the numbers on these pages minimums?  If so, what are the maximums?
 * 2) Are the increases taking into account % boosts on the character otherwise (e.g., unit has total of +70% SPR, so a +1 stat boost could provide a total increase of 1-2, and a +2 stat boost could provide 3-4 points total)?  If so, how do we calculate the actual current increase to a stat from pots on a character?

Apologies if this should be posted to a different talk page, I could not find a page other than this (mechanics) page that talked about pots in general and wasn't an event page.

Thanks! --Mushoku (talk) 11:20, 2 December 2016 (EST)
 * The second case - pots increase your base stats so they are affected by passives and equipments that give %, if you use a pot that gives +1 point you might see that you received +2, but that's because you have over 100% bonus on passives. In your Cecil case he has +30% HP (passive + materia?) so each pot gave +39 HP, but this is still 30 HP from his 390 maximum base HP he can get from pots --Umuzu (talk) 14:45, 2 December 2016 (EST)
 * I appreciate the response! Sounds like I may have room for additional HP on my Cecil, then. Next time I get Tough Pots I'll see what happens, and if they ever become unavailable to use. --Mushoku (talk)

It's a matter of rounding. Percentage increases are floored. If you have 124 base ATK with an innate +20% ATK and no gear, your total would be 148 (124 * 1.2 = 148.8). Upon using a mini power pot, you will see +2 ATK because 125 * 1.2 = 150. &mdash;CodeHydro (talk) 09:38, 20 January 2017 (EST)

Damage Mitigation
From the formulas the following bullet seems off or at least confusing "Unmitigated damage increases your ability damage by static amount, despite the popular belief that it's better on enemy with high DEF/SPR". Its an increase like all the others, think we should remove it or clarify, seems to add nothing since the rest of the bullets clearly show how it influences damage.--Poor (talk) 09:14, 8 December 2016 (EST)

Update Chaining Info
We should probably update the chaining info with new knowledge of how chains are calculated. It seems like elemental chain hit is actually +0.2 per element in addition to +0.1 for chain hit. So for a single elemental chain hit is +0.3 and for two elements it is +0.5. A spark chain hit adds +0.4 (for example: two elemental spark chain hit is actually +0.9). It is an oversimplification that an element chain hit is +0.3 and spark chain hit is +0.5. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/FFBraveExvius/comments/67v3i0/you_can_build_an_elemental_chain_twice_as_fast_by/?ref=share&ref_source=link

Fixed Damage Type can be modified
The damage type section lists fixed damage as unmodified; but this is incorrect. I know that Fixed damage like Void Vessel and Double Dice are affected by elemental resistances. Void Vessel does 2000 fixed dark damage, but does 118000 damage when Kefka is vulnerable to dark. I don't know if Void Vessel is affected by physical killers or chaining; someone should test this out. Setzer's Double Dice however is affected by elemental attribute, physical killer effects, and also chaining. (Here's a video of JP showing that chaining & killers work with Double Dice. https://www.reddit.com/r/FFBraveExvius/comments/66c1dc/for_those_who_are_unaware_of_setzers_cheese_for/dghe2zs/ NOTE: Killers don't stack in GL so we won't be able to OTKO Aigaion with Setzers.) You can look at the Beasts of the Dark "Setzer Cheese" section to see all three to increase DW Double Dice from (77,777)x2 damage up to 1,364,986 damage. --Vkbd (talk) 20:02, 20 July 2017 (UTC)


 * If you'd look just a little below what you're adding on a page you'd notice that Setzer's dices are Physical-type attacks with Fixed-type damage, not Fixed-type attacks with Fixed-type damage, and as such the table is correct
 * SunsetHaste (talk) 22:43, 15 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Oh I see that now. (I understood "physical" and "magical" as two separate damage and attack types, but I didn't also apply double meaning to "fixed".)
 * That said, I don't think the word "fixed" makes sense; it doesn't seem to describe an attack method like "physical" or "magical". Internally, I think of it as a "special" attack type, but I guess given enough time, people will get used to "fixed" as an attack type, separate from the "fixed" as a damage type.
 * In the spirit of clarity, I would suggest that ability descriptions be consistent. Currently, they are all inconsistent and unclear ways of describing attack and damage type. For example, Double Dice is described as "Fixed physical damage" with damage type first, attack type second. Coin Steal as "physical damage" and Hallowed Song as "Dark magic damage" both describe damage type but without attack type. Most the shurikens and grenades say "Damage" without saying the attack type, but Imperial Grenade grenade says "Fixed damage": does that mean it is fixed attack type? (I guess the only way to test it out is wait for a trial boss with physical immunity.) The one I like best is on Dagger Boomerang with a (?) bubble describing physical attack but text says "Magic damage". My suggestion would be simply get rid of the (?) bubble and write out "Physical attack with magic damage" when the damage and attack type disagree. So for Double Dice, it would be "Physical attack with fixed damage" instead of "Fixed physical damage". And for Mug, it would be "Fixed attack with physical damage" instead of just "Physical damage". (If further clarification is needed, the "fixed attack" could be a link to the Mechanics page.)

Berserk
The mechanics of a unit under the Berserk status needs some clarification. Do they obey targeting or just attack random enemies? What happens if they are also confused? Do their counters still trigger? - Maximum joeeh (talk) 14:44, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Minimum SPR damage reduction
Apparently there is a minimum SPR(and presumably DEF) of .1? Tested using Yshtola with cleric stance (and no equip/esper), hit with a friendly unit (lev 100) with fire at 150MAG, did 54000. Assuming 10% mod from hitting your own units, and 2x from level multiplier, you get exactly .1 SPR: (150^2/.1)*2*.1*1.2=54000 *Note that in-game displays 0SPR. Haven't tested if this minimum also applies to heals, etc (although it's 99% trivia at this point).

Blind effects on hybrid skills
My VOL's Saint Buster never miss on Shadow Lord even when blind. Is that intended? Ffbestahn (talk) 13:30, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Drop rate boosts
Does the character with the boost to drop rate have to deal killing or overkilling damage for the ability to take effect, or will their mere presence cause the boost ability to take effect? Yazdyeys (talk) 00:32, 8 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Their mere presence in the party will cause the passive to take effect.--FencerTJ (talk) 00:34, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Enemy targetting
A lot of reddit comments about 2nd Anniversary Short Stories say that provoke and camouflage is not additive. (https://www.reddit.com/r/FFBraveExvius/comments/8wad78/gl_grandshelt_knights_mk_banner_more_76/) Instead, people are saying that provoke is checked separately from camouflage. If this is the case, then the wording that says "stacked additively" is not in line with common knowledge, and should instead say "active provoke abilities are checked first before passives, which may stack additively." Vkbd (talk) 18:31, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

MP Refresh calculation
We know that SPR is calculated when healing HP but what stat is calculated when refreshing MP for the *.*x at the end of the ability? I've done a bit of testing and I think it's still SPR but I'm not sure. Would really help to add it to the healing mechanics. Libridan (talk) 14 August 2018


 * it's still the healing formula (0.5x spr + 0.1x mag) --CottonC 3939 (talk) 10:08, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

"By" vs "To"
Why is it reverted again?

From:
 * Ignore 50% DEF/SPR will increase your damage by 100%

to:
 * Ignore 50% DEF/SPR will increase your damage by 2x

If you have salary of 20 bucks an hour and your boss tells you "I'll increase your salary by 100%", then your pay becomes 40 bucks (20 bucks + 100%x 20 bucks = 40 bucks), no?

If he, instead, tells you "I'll increase your salary by 2x", then you will receive 60 bucks (20 bucks + 2x 20 bucks = 60 bucks)

--140.213.47.131 03:17, 21 July 2019 (UTC)